Sunday, July 01, 2007

Revolving Door

Philadelphia has used 24 pitchers this season, three fewer than the club record of 27, which was set in 2002. That number will soon jump to 25 as Anderson Garcia was called up from Ottawa following yesterday's game as J.A. Happ was quickly jettisoned after his lackluster performance. Gas-Can Geary was sent down prior to the game to make room for Happ, and J.D. Durbin remains in Phillies pinstripes for the time being where he'll be "helping" out in the bullpen. Here's the stellar list of the 24 pitchers appearing for the 2007 version of the Philadelphia Phillies: (in order of innings pitched) Cole Hamels, Jamie Moyer, Adam Eaton, Jon Lieber, Freddy Garcia, Ryan Madson, Geoff Geary, Brett Myers, Antonio Alfonseca, Francisco Rosario, Clay Condrey, Kyle Kendrick, Yoel Hernandez, Mike Zagurski, Jose Mesa, Tom Gordon, Brian Sanches, J.D. Durbin, Zach Segovia, J.A. Happ, Matt Smith, Fabio Castro, Joe Bisenius, and J.C. Romero. All of that equals a 4.92 era, which is ranked 28th out of 30 MLB teams and dead last in the NL. Thanks again Patty G, you really know how to assemble a championship caliber team. I can't wait to see what other crap we call up from the minors or pick up from other teams happy to get rid of them. This is going to be a long season...



GM-Carson said...

Here's someone who we had at Ottawa to start the year but let him go: 2.82 era, 1.12 whip, 22.1 ip, 21k, .205 avg against. He'd look good in our bullpen. His name is Justin Miller and he pitches for the Florida Marlins. Once again, great talent evaluator that Pat Gillick is. This isn't quite on the level of allowing Justin Germano to slip away, but it's yet another blown call on his behalf.

GreggyD said...

I am so damn tired of this team, most of its players and coaches, the manager, the front office, the owners...pretty much everything about the Philadelphia Phillies organization. I guess they find it OK that they keep bringing up pitchers that either shouldn't be here or shouldn't be here for another year or two. Hell, Kyle Drabek might be pitching next week for all we know.

This organization is clearly not devoted to winning, or they would try a bit harder to find talent to come in and help us win. They knew at the end of last year that the bullpen was in shambles, but did they address it? Of course not.

Pat Burrell has been benched nine out of 13 games now, but thanks to the genius that was Ed Wade, we have him for this season and next at a combined $27.25 million. Recently it was said that they want to move him, but guess what?? NOBODY WANTS HIM!!!

I am just fuming with anger with this whole situation that Pat Gillick has put us in along with the ownership. I don't even know what to say anymore. All of this complaining that we all do is getting so redundant and tiresome, due simply to the fact that the Philadelphia Phillies flat out suck.

GM-Carson said...

"All of this complaining that we all do is getting so redundant and tiresome, due simply to the fact that the Philadelphia Phillies flat out suck."

*Tell me about it GreggyD, as it's getting difficult to try and be humorous in the face of such shittiness. If I didn't love baseball so much I wouldn't even bother with the Phils, but so much of my life has been patheticly invested in them that I can't do without them now.

McD said...

I think we should stop dwelling on the negatives and praise the positives. We notched franchise loss #10,000 yesterday. That means nobody, and I mean nobody loses better than the Philadelphia Phillies!

The Curse of the Bambino? Please

The Billy Goat Curse of the Cubs? I wish we had something so loveable hexing us!

No fan base has suffered more in the history of American professional sports.

So hold your heads up high Phils fans! Nobody takes abuse better than us!

Maximis said...

I appreciate this insightful comparison because now I know that Geoff Geary has pitched more than Brett Myers, and both Joey Table and Mike Zagurski have pitched more than Flash Gordon.

I just don't understand, how are we only 6 back???

At least the fans in Pittsburgh, where I currently reside, tried to organize a walkout which sucked and didn't work... I can envision Phillies fans just rioting instead, burning effagies of our GM in the ballpark.

When will the pain end? Please god don't let us get swept today.

Carson, I want to exchange links, but I don't know how to...let me know.

GreggyD said...

If I weren't so invested with this team in terms of commitment I'd leave them to the wayside too. The fact of the matter is that I am all about Philly sports and it is my one true passion. The sad thing is that so many people are in the same boat and the team just doesn't seem to care at all. As long as they are turning a profit it doesn't matter to them.

Walk outs never work because there will always be the casual fan who just wants to go to the ballpark to see some baseball win or lose. The Detroit Lions fans have threatened to walk out for years, and it still hasn't worked. Let's face it, we're stuck with this garbage until we get a new manager, GM, and ownership group. Give it 30 years.

Maximis said...

That walkout was the dumbest thing ever.

Once again, if you want to read my thoughts...

Until I figure out how to exchange links, I'm just gonna keep doing this...sorry.

Los said...

This may be the point of the season we point back to and say "This is where it all fell apart." What a disappointment.

das411 said...

Asked this last night and got bumped:

"Seriously guys, not only does the team need to step up and land a few square on those Met faces tomorrow (since when has Jose Reyes become such a whiny bitch?), but the whole damn crowd has sounded like a bunch of NYers all weekend! WTF??? THAT is more embarassing than the friggin' 10K!

and re: the Astro rumors, would you guys trade either Bourn or semi-prospect Kyle Drabek (iirc both are Houstonians) to pick up Lidge and Jennings? I also have been wondering these last few days if Gillick is working on a Moyer-esque deal for old man Woody Williams too, he seems like more of a Stand Pat-style pickup but then again this team needs every live arm it can find. "

Bob D said...

Ever think that it's not the pitchers who are horrible, Maybe its the wat they are used? Maybe that is why there are 7 pitchers on the DL right now??? Why would one guy pitch 5 out of six days (Gordon, Myers) and another pitch only once in six days (Castro, Condrey). The way they are used has caused some of these problems with ineffectiveness and injuries.

Bob D said...

I can't even keep up with this weeks revolving door. Someone needs to "clutch-up". What happened this week up came: Condrey, Sanches, Durbin, Happ, Romero, and Garcia down went: Condrey, Geary, Happ, and Werth.

At least Coste came back up, that will make a better bench.

GreggyD said...

"and re: the Astro rumors, would you guys trade either Bourn or semi-prospect Kyle Drabek (iirc both are Houstonians) to pick up Lidge and Jennings? I also have been wondering these last few days if Gillick is working on a Moyer-esque deal for old man Woody Williams too, he seems like more of a Stand Pat-style pickup but then again this team needs every live arm it can find."

I would definitely not trade Bourn. I think he could turn out to be something special. As for Drabek, I am not sure how interested teams would be in him, plus should we really give up our first round pick from last year so soon? I understand that we need to make some kind of deal and that we may have to give up one or possibly two of our best prospects. I don't know if I would give up both of them for Jennings and Lidge. I can see that one biting us in the ass.

And good lord I hope the Phillies don't even think about Woody Williams. We would end up trading a young player for Williams who is over 40 and who knows when he retires. The Phillies are just stuck between a rock and a hard place. Honestly, I don't know if they'll be able to make any kind of move that will carry them to the postseason.

Jacobin said...

Kyle Kendrick is pitching a nice game today and the bullpen is overused. So naturally with two out in the seventh with no one on, Fuqua lifts Kendrick (under 100 pitches) to bring in J.C. Romero to face Rickie Ledee... oh wait, now the Mets counter by sending a right-handed bat up to the plate. Romero gets the out on one pitch, but why bring him in here? Fuqua is a fuqua'ing moron.

J.C. Romero, J.D. Durbin, J.A. Happ... hey, my first two initials are J.M. so when will I get a called up?

Jacobin said...

Oh and this is a few days late but, someone had posted the crap-fest songs that Pat Burrell has used over the years as his introduction music when he comes up to bat. I believe that his at bat music should be changed to the Dire Strait's classic Money For Nothing.

Whelkman said...


And he gets the chicks for free.

What's Burrell up to in 2009?

He's gotta move these refrigerators.
He's gotta move these colour tvs.

BENTZ said...

Well back to 5 bad as this weekend was...and it was least it wasn't the worse-case scenario which is what I was sure would be coming after leaving yesterday's fiasco. Friday night's game is the one that pisses me off...Hamels has to be better than that!

Great job by Kendrick. I know Houston and Colorado are inconsistent but these also aren't easy parks to pitch in for these young least the vet Moyer goes tomorrow (or Tuesday - I forget if there is an off day).

Corey said...

he certainly isn't a "sultan of swing."

batting average update: .201

so close to .199. i know he can do it, i have faith...

Whelkman said...

But he is a "sultan of swig".

Corey said...

he's still 3rd in the league in base on balls...

"He do the song about the sweet lovin' woman
He do the song about the knife
He do the walk, he do the walk of life, yeah he do the walk of life"

SirAlden said...

Durbin is up because he has no more options left I believe. Happ is down because there is no need for a 5th starter until July 17th.

I really liked Happ yesterday watching him on TV. The supposed best change up in the organization after Hamels was being tipped, and golfed out for Homeruns. The rest was encouraging.

Pulling your hair out about marginal pitchers who have gone elsewhere will have you looking like Telly "i love yah baby" Savallas in no time.

This or that marginal guy with marginal minor league stats is not going to add up to a full meal.

The team's scouts have drooled over some minor leaguer guys with major league stuff - Romaro - Durbin - now Garcia, and thought the Phillies could help them become pitchers not throwers.

So far these guys with good stuff SUCK@@! That is Dubee's and the minor league pitching coaches, and scouts fault. I can see why we took a fliers on a bunch or Durbin's not soft tossers like Germano who had not so good Etude Brito type stats.

This said this is possibly the worst relief staff in history, but the Free Agents were terrible aside from a California Guy who signed for 18 million with the Angels and promptly went on the DL and a guy who was the only human in history to have 2 Tommy John Surgeries, who had pitched a total of 2 innings last season and signed for 6 million dollars.

Enjoy what we got a solid young team and a payroll that now can sign quality arms and a 3rd basemand like Cabrera when he becomes available.

SirAlden said...

Gillick is cleaning out the kitty litter box. It still puts a stink on him but it is not his poop.

fans said...

We just came back from the game. Was great - still not sure why Manuel took Kendrick and Zagurski out with 2 outs.

Many, many Mets fans ejected in our section.

Whelkman said...

Wade's old, dried poop stinks less than Gillick's disgusting, still-moist diarrhetic spray.

GM-Carson said...

I never thought I'd be saying this, but I miss old Nutsack. Nutsack being Ed Wade. Wade sucked, but Patty G sucks more. Seriously, the only things he's gotten us in a season and a half that have been worth anything are Six-Finger-Ant and Grand Pappy Moyer. All his other "add"itions have been flops.

Glad we didn't get swept today. Kendrick is proving to be a worthy rotation spot holder. Still, this series was a bust and leaves me bitter and pissed off.

I'd be willing to trade Bourn or Drabek for a Jennings/Lidge package, but not both.

Sir Alden, if Miguel Cabrera ever signs here I'll pop an everlasting woody that Cialis would envy.

BenJah said...

is corey ready to jump on the kendrick bandwagon yet??

Jacobin said...

Yeah, I don't understand lifting Zagurski with one out to go in the game, just like I didn't understand lifting Kendrick (he of 89 pitches thrown) with two outs and no one on in the seventh. Romero comes in for Kendrick and throws one pitch. Alfonseca comes in and faces on batter. Sure neither reliever pitched much, but they warmed up in the bullpen and that's as much wear on them as putting them in for an inning. I know it's beating the dead horse and stating what we obviously all know, but Fuqua can't manage a pitching staff.

GM-Carson said...

I'm on the Kendrick bandwagon, because he's an easy kid to root for...hopefully Corey jumps on for the ride shortly too.

Charles Fuqua Manuel is a retard, no really, a big f'n re-re! Alfonseca should have never come into the game, should have let Fat Mike Zagurski pick up the save...heaven forbid anyone but the "closer" pick up the almighty save. I'm thinking this J.C. Romero pick up will be worthwhile, and that's a change of pace from Gillick.

Corey said...

i'm still far from buying my ticket to ride the bandwagon.

kendrick has given up 12 runs in his 4 starts. fine. but...

robinson tejeda gave up 3 runs in his first 5 starts in 2005. where is he at now?

eude brito gave up only 9 runs in his 5 starts in 2005. is he helping them now?

amaury telemaco had a 3.97 ERA in 8 starts with the Phils in '03, then never started again.

kendrick also has more walks than strikeouts. how many successful starters have a K:BB ratio <1 ? it is waaaaaaaay too early to pronounce kendrick a success.

and what the hell does "he's an easy kid to root for" mean? have you been taking lessons from the "chris wheeler school of useless cliches" again?

Jacobin said...

I'm just going to throw one more dampener on the Jennings/Lidge thing. Those two guys represent about $10.8 million in salary (each making up about half of that). This ownership group will not let them take on any significant salary, which those two players would represent. It's more likely that this team will sign some has-been like Donovan Osborne from the Long Island Ducks of the Independent League.

GreggyD said...

I find it amusing that the Flyers, who were the worst team in the entire NHL, and have a very tight salary cap can manage to go out and trade for two extremely talented players who are about to become free agents and then sign them to deserving contracts and then sign arguably the top free agent to an appropriate contract too.

Meanwhile, at CBP, not only do they bring in mediocre free agents (Helms and Barajas), but they absolutely refuse to spend anymore money to get better...this without a tight salary cap. Now I know, these two sports are different and the Phillies do spend over $90 million on payroll. The fact of the matter is that they're not getting their moneys worth for that $90 million. Look at the Marlins, they don't spend a whole hell of a lot of money and they churn out decent prospects. Hell, they've won two world series championships in the past 10 years. We've won a grand total of one in over 120 years.

I don't care how much Lidge/Jennings cost, and I don't care how much free agents cost anymore. Either fork out the cash for the best or get some better scouts/talent evaluators...including the GM.

Jacobin said...

I agree with you GreggyD, but there is a base difference between the Flyers and the Phillies that can be seen at the top of the organization. Ed Snider has always wanted his hockey team to be a winner (it might not always work out that way, but he wants it and spends to achieve it). Meanwhile, over at the Phillies' front office, the mantra is to spend enough to make money and if they win that's nice, but don't spend too much and intrude upon the nice check each member the Gang of Seven ownership group gets out of the team. They don't care if they win, they just care if they make a profit.

Unfortunately, this kind of bullshit has been the general history of this team since its inception (with the notable exception of those years the Carpenters owned and operated the team). Now I don't know if Lidge/Jennings are really available or if the organization even has what Houston would be looking for in a trade. I just hate knowing that it isn't even a possibility because these two guys would boost the payroll.

Anyone know if the team has any sort of insurance policy for people like Garcia and Lieber?

BloodStripes said...

Glad we won. Can put the blades away now. That was getting tough to take. Nothing worse than getting done by New York.

SirAlden said...

Dear GM-Carson you great guy....

I have a friend who works for the Red Sox and he told me that they want Cabrara bad and that they know they will not be able to out bid Gillick because he has been saving up.

This is who Gillick brought you this year my favorite blogger in the whole wide world....

Ryan Howard Gillick brought him
Aaron Rowand Gillick brought him
Shane Victorino Gillick brought him
Micheal Bourne Gillick brought him
Greg Dobbs Gillick brought him
Cole Hamels Gillick advanced him a year earlier

Freddie Garcia Who has the same MRI today that he had last Sept when his ERA was under two

Wes "i miss the hotties in south beach" Helms

and Everybody hates Ramon the back up catcher because Gillick did not believe we could go into a 162 season with a minor leaguer who had been injured and Coste.

Gillick also gave you the 2007 Major League Draft with not one but two extra draft picks in the first 113 players selected.

He did not sign great Free Agent Relievers and lose Draft Picks...

THERE WERE NONE who wanted to sign here who were worth losing a draft pick.

We have 40 Million we can spend next year on Free Agents and 15 Million the year after.

If anyone can show me the MLB free agent relief pitchers we you as the GM would have signed I will eat my hat.

If you have 20-20 magic future sight and the way forward machine and say Aaron Fultz that is just silly.

I called out another poster and he still has not responded because his 19 other guys don't exist.

Gillick had the money and wanted as you and I would have wanted to, sign good relievers, who would be worth draft picks, I for one am glad he protected us and did not lose a single draft pick.

Pitchers do not want to pitch in the CIT. That is not Gillicks fault, and it will continue to be hard for any GM to sign pitchers.

GM-Carson said...

Sir Alden- I'm not sure if you really think I'm a great guy or an asshole at this point, and am I truly your favorite blogger?

I'll tell you which relievers I would have signed Justin Spier and Chad Bradford. David Weathers intrigued me a lot too, but he was going to cost a draft pick. By the way, I would have thrown down the little over a million it took to get Aaron Fultz if I knew Gillick didn't plan on getting anybody else.

Question- how did Gillick bring Howard, Victorino, and Bourn? They were in the organization when he got here.

SirAlden said...

GM-Carson...Yes you are my favorite blogger, but it is not a man crush.

When you posted the Green Day Whiner Post which correctly shows how everyone feels is when you had me hooked at hello.

Howard, Victorino, and Bourne were blocked and almost traded for Pittsburg pond scum by Wadeypoo.
Gillick realized like the Eagles do that the checkbook is not unlimited and we need to have a balance of young guys playin' for chicks, to give use the football equivalent of CAP ROOM.

Thome was traded who brought us Rowand (without him this year we would be 5 games under .500 now),
and created the space for Howard to have the greatest homerun season in Phillies History. If you were the GM and pulled off the Thome Trade you would be completely responcible for Ryan Howard. You would also have nabbed us with 2 degrees of separation _ the fabulous model Dictator "Fabio Castro" who is still a baby.
You would have also nabbed and lost GIO, and removed the temptation to have Floyd come up and fail again.

Abreu...noone more than me wanted him to go into the Hall of Fame as a Phillie. As you know we have not had alot to cheer for in your young lifetime. Burrell would not go to the Orioles, he would not wave his no-trade clause. With the Abreu trade we saved 25+ million dollars (to lazy to look it up again) and Shane Victorino got to play. If you were the GM and thought that the "flyin' Hawaian" should have a spot with his cannon arm, you would have had to have traded Abreu, then you would have been responcible.

If you are Directing Play and you fire the older has been, because you believe the understudy had what it takes you are making a gutsy move and you have CREATED that Star.

The Bourne move is subtler, and Gillick has taken more heat than a sidewinder missle. He decided that Bourne is of more value than Coste on the bench. It is really a Bourne-Coste argument, once the move is taken for an experienced back up catcher in everyone hates Ramon. Gillick by making Bourne the final bat off the bench and not Coste, created him.

As for Justin Spier and Chad Bradford, and David Weathers,
I too would have gone for Spier and Weathers - take a gander at this from my post on Beerleaguer

David Weathers Resigned Reds
2006 ERA 3.32 WHIP 1.00
2 years/$5M
2007 VS. LEFT: .211 BA VS. RIGHT: .185 BA
Great Experienced guy, had been with Reds for 3 years, resigned.

Chad Bradford FA Mets 2006 ERA 2.90 WHIP 1.16
3 year/$10.5M 2007 VS. LEFT: .355 BA VS. RIGHT: .275 BA
Great signing on paper, big money, Terrible this year, W 0 – L 4 so far.

Justin Speier FA Blue Jays
2006 ERA 2.98 WHIP 1.33
4 years/$18.0M 2007 VS. LEFT: .154 BA VS. RIGHT: .107 BA
16.0 innings pitched on DL 18M contract Walnut Creek, CA boy signed with LAAngels

To review, you are competing against all the other MLB teams for these 11 guys.
Who would you give up 1st and 2nd round draft picks for? I would have chased Weathers and Speier, I know the Phillies chased Weathers, and I am sure they called Speier’s agent to ask if he would sign on the east coast. Bradford maybe but not for over 10 million, and if we signed him, it would not have mattered, he is not doing well this year.

That leaves Gagne, arm issues, 2 Tommy Johns, 2 Herniated Disks, 2 innings pitched last year for 6 million dollars if he wanted to come East to the Cit. I would have gone for Gagne.

The point here is crystal clear. Pontifications aside, and “my mind’s made up don’t confuse me with the facts”, the 2006 Free Agent Reliever Class was woefully thin with no easy and good options.

Posted under: Game chat: Phillies, Mets collide in key NL East series

You and I and Gillick and everyone else would have signed Weathers and Spier, they like most cute chicks had many options and pitching in the CIT was not a first choice. My point was if you and I were the the GM and we failed to sign or go after these guys then we would have been guilty. If they are from Walnut Creek California and like Cali Gurls, or have pitched in Cincinati for 3 years have all the money they will ever need and they want to get laid by the wife who is likes the local school system for the kids.

OR FOR SOME REASON YOU GREW UP ROOTING FOR THE ST. LOUIS CARDINALS, and you are Scott "never got into the Philly Sound" Rolan, you sign elsewhere.

SirAlden said...

Another quick point, rememeber how Bowa was the protection for the owner the scapegoat, and then look out Wade you are next and he was....

Now it is Gillick as the ownership scapegoat, if you look deeper I think many would have made many of the strategic moves. Signing his old retread guys was lame there were 3 or 4 of them as flyers, but look at Greg Dobbs now.

The anger should be at the owners, "Smokem if you gottum" Dubee, and then finally poor Charlie.