Tuesday, October 17, 2006

Value of Pat Burrell

I bring to you the much heated debate of the worth of Pat Burrell. All around the Phillies blogsphere I have been reading comments by Phillies fans praying/hoping/demanding Pat Burrell be traded. I can understand why people would want that. As it's been well documented that he is slow on the basepaths, limited range in the outfield, grounds into double plays, and watches a sickening amount of called 3rd strikes...doesn't sound like a winner does it? No wonder the fans boo his ass off the field every chance they get. Not to mention this schmuck is in line to make around 12 million next season.

Does this player sound like a loser that you would want to trade away- (past 2 seasons) 78/80 runs, 32/29 homeruns, 117/95 rbi, and .893/.890 OPS? No, that sounds like a player we'd want to trade for or sign off the free agency market in order to be protection for Ryan Howard in the 5 hole in the lineup. That player is Pat Burrell. He had a horrible season with men in scoring position, but that fluctuates from season to season. He was banged up with a bum foot and wrist. Burrell was probably mentally tired by season's end too, as the home and away crowds constantly let him know how they felt about him...BOOOOOOOOOOOOO! All that shit and he still managed an excellent OPS.

The last 2 months of the season is when Burrell haters started really showing up. Yes, some have always disliked Burrell since his disastrous 2003 season, but others came out in droves while the Phils were making their push for the Wild Card. Fact is he was pretty consistent all season long in regards to OPS...amazingly so, I didn't even believe it at first. So here is my assessment on Pat Burrell- he is a below average fielder with a plus arm, a slow runner, has the ability to get on base, knock in runs, hit the long ball, and overall is an above average MLB OF. I know you guys don't like to hear that, but it's the truth, he performs far above the average outfielder. Notice I didn't say he was worth 12 million though.

12 million dollars is probably a big reason fans want to see Burrell leave. Well, we'd have to eat a portion of the 12 million, probably wouldn't get much of a package in return, and would be left with a gaping hole in LF to fill. Our in house options of Rowand, Victorino, Conine, Roberson, and Bourn are nowhere near Burrell offensively...this once again is true! Why would we trade Burrell away and pay a portion of his salary, and then fill the void with a less superior alternative? Just doesn't make sense. People might sign "get someone better than Burrell". Well then you have to pay that player X amount of dollars, plus add the part of Burrell's contract on top of that...once again doesn't make sense.

I say unless we can trade Pat Burrell straight up for a starting pitcher or 3rd baseman without eating any of his contract, then it's simply not worth trading him. Burrell should take the offseason to rest/repair mentally and physically and come back and produce and make fans happy again. So as bad as you hate Burrell right now, just imagine his bat not in the lineup and a full season of Jeff Conine or Chris Roberson instead...we have to take what we can get, and we got Burrell. I know people want Soriano, but he's costly and unlikely. What really needs addressed is that butt-plug of a 3rd baseman with a bat so weak that Corey can actually hit better than him.

~Carson

P.S. Take notice to the position listed on the baseball card. Also, I can't wait to see people's comments about this.

20 comments:

Bob D said...

Good topic, LF is not a priority - 3B is. If they add a Beltre or Crede or someone of that ilk LF will likely stay the same. Rowand as I see it is more likely to be traded for this 3B or SP that we need on this team (because his value is higher). If Gillick wants to trade him, then during the season next year his value would likely be higher than it is now.
It's rumored that the Phils are interested in Sheffield, this in my opinion is a worse idea to replace Burrell. He is a few years older has been injured more this last year and actually has less power than Burrell. To pay for some of Burrell's contract or get peanuts back in a trade and then pay nearly the same for Sheffield is a waste.

dane said...

i believe injuries are part of the reason for burrell's struggles but don't account for all of them. I think he has a little scott rolen in him. he is high maintanence and doesn't perform well under pressure and philly is a pressure cooker. burrell has plenty of potential but i don't think he will ever reach that potential in philly and possibly anywhere for that matter. batting leadoff and playing left field for your philadelphia phillies...Alfonso Soriano

Fat Ted said...

he needs a fresh start and Philly definately won't give it to him. Say he does come back next year there is that slim chance that he does well and becomes worth his 12 million paycheck. But that is still a slim chance. So if there is a trade to be had that benefits the Phils either at 3B or SP then it should be done.

BloodStripes said...

It comes down to BA. If Pat can have a year free of injury then its possible he could lift his average to .270 or .280 and things would look a whole lot better for him. A few more hits whilst protecting Howard, a few less caught looking K's or whatever. Its all perception. A few more timely hits and he is in the clear. 2 good feet might bring a touch more speed as well.

BloodStripes said...

I agree 3B is the major priority. As Fat Ted said "if there is a trade to be had that benefits the Phils either at 3B or SP then it should be done".

GM-Carson said...

Wow, I expected to tune in this morning and have this post blasted, but you guys obviously read the piece and see what I was saying.

I have a way to get a 3rd baseman- Moyer and Rowand to Seattle with Seattle giving us Beltre plus a few million to offset his high price. Moyer wants back to the M's anyway, and this way we grant him his wish while filling a huge void at 3rd. I love what Rowand brought to this team (fire and some balls), but he simply is a square peg trying to fit into a circular hole here in Phillies offensive scheme.

I just don't want to deal any more offense away. The pitching staff is at best going to remain equal to last season with a chance to slipping a notch...meaning we need all the bats we can get, and trading away Burrell's bat while playing someone like Conine isn't going to work.

Dane- Soriano? That's about as far fetched as my A-Ram idea. But it could happen.

About Sheffield- he's 38, but he's a damn good 38 when healthy. However, that "when healthy" is becoming more and more iffy as he gets older.

~Carson

GM-Carson said...

Update- Gavin Floyd got shelled yesterday in the Arizona Fall League, giving up something like 7 runs in about an innings work.

*Note to Pat Gillick- I NEVER WANT TO SEE GAVIN FLOYD PITCH FOR THE PHILLIES EVER AGAIN!!!

BloodStripes said...

Thats a great deal for Beltre. I like your thinking DQ.

I'm really warming to the idea of getting Sheffield to Philly. The guy is a champion. A broken wrist won't hurt too much. After a lean season he will be fit and rested and ready to go. He has averaged over 500 AB's per year since '99 and fielded admirably. He's not too fragile. Put him in CBP for 45 home runs and he joins the 500 club.

Shame about Gavin Floyd. We could do with him next year if he was goin' any good.

GM-Carson said...

More about Sheffield- depending on his price, he could be an excellent fit for the Phils outfield. Imagine Burrell, Victorino, and Sheffield in the OF next season. Sheff bats 5th, Burrell 6th, and Vic 2nd. That is a decent lineup. He isn't as brittle as people are making him out to be either. Injuries happen to the most reliable of players sometimes. For example, Hideki Matsui broke his wrist last season and play 160+ games for like 3 seasons or something. Sheff can probably be counted on for 135-145 games. Conine/Roberson/Bourn can give him a weekly break.

~Carson

BenJah said...

great assessment of burrell. the best thing for us to do w/ him is probably treat him like a pitcher...let him play the first 6-7 innings and get the most out of his bat, then put in a defensive replacement for the last couple innings. that would be a good way to work bourn into the mix and maybe raise burrell's trade value for next year's deadline.

BenJah said...

there's more than a reasonable chance that burrell comes back healthier next year and shocks the world...or at least philadelphia

Los said...

Seriously, guys - enough is enough with Burrell. Get rid of him if you can. He comes up small in big situations, doesn't seem like a very good team player, and seems to blame everybody but himself with regards to his "batting technique" and slumps. Enough, already.

GM-Carson said...

Los- you are entitled to your opinion on Burrell and I agree on some of your points. But I will not discount the amount of offense that Pat Burrell brings to this team. I do not want to trade away his bat and create yet another void. We already need a quality 3rd baseman, why create another hole in the lineup. I understand that Burrell came up "small" it crucial situations last season, but the year before he was actually money with runners in scoring position. This is a stat that tends to go up and down from year to year unless you're one of the few elite players in the league (i.e. Puljols). Keep Burrell, because I don't want another shitty money situation like the Thome trade or a shitty package like the Abreu trade. Just my take on this whole ordeal.

~Carson

GM-Carson said...

Wouldn't you rather trade Rowand who could probably get a better return package than Burrell? Rowand is not nearly as good as Burrell with the bat, and defensively he's over-rated...so why not trade him instead?

BenJah said...

i'd rather keep rowand b/c he's more athletic and i think he'll actually be good next year. rowand's major problem is that the cit is too small....his range in center field is bigger than the area he's given to patrol.

GM-Carson said...

I'm actually ok with an outfield of Burrell (LF), Victorino (CF), and Rowand (RF). With Conine get an occasional start and Roberson or Bourn coming in for defense or pinch runner for Burrell in games.

Rowand, because of his lower salary, could probably help land pitching help or a 3rd baseman though, and that's why I suggest dealing him.

~Carson

The Rev said...

I'll blast it.

Sometmes, the numbers just don't matter. Some guys help team chemistry, some guys hurt it.

Pat Burrell hurts it.

Yes, maybe his numbers are OK. But they can be replaced with the right move. It's not like there aren't a bunch of outfielders out there who can't do what he does. And I'm willing to bet some of those guys are better people to have in the clubhouse.

Pitchers now realize how to get Pat Burrelk out. You know how? You throw it down the middle with two strikes. He won't attempt to hit it.

You're off base on this one. Burrell needs to go. I'd release him outright if I could.

GM-Carson said...

REV- thank you for voicing you opinion. I was expecting more people to blast it, although I feel I made a pretty good argument as to why the Phils should keep Burrell.

Here's the deal- Pat Burrell isn't a superstar, but he gets a superstar paycheck. You're correct in saying "sometimes the numbers just don't matter". Because as I pointed out with the Abreu deal back in August OPS is good stat but it doesn't mean everything. Clubhouse pressence does come into play, but are we sure Burrell is a negative factor in the clubhouse? I saw him getting pretty charged up with Utley, Howard, and the crew.

Keeping Burrell is simply my preference, although I'm thinking Gillick deals him. How we fill the void is another question, because the one thing you said REV that is not true "It's not like there aren't a bunch of outfielders out there who can't do what he does", might come back to haunt us. Going by the numbers, Burrell is better than most team's corner outfielders. But like I've said and you implied...#'s aren't everything.

~Carson

Bob D said...

My take:
Trade Rowand since he has high value on the trade market. He will also land a 3B or SP that we need.
Keep Burrell don't need to eat salary, he is likely to increase his value during the year, and if he is hitting 6th or preferably 7th then his short comings are not as hard on the team.
Conine and Roberson are the bench guys.
The team will need to sign another free agent OF that bats lefty. (Or resign Delluci - which will be hard to do)
Bourn should be a starter by the end of next year, especially if Burrell gets moved in July.
Victorino will be starting in CF.

GM-Carson said...

I'm not sold either way on Bourn yet. I would like to see him worked in as a pinch hitter, spot starter, and defensive replacement next season. Possibly give him 2 months at Ottawa to start the season, then call him up. He has amazing speed, and if he can learn to get on base consistently...then we finally have a prototypical leadoff hitter!